Welcome back to Roots to Roots. This is a show where I speak to people who at some point in their journey have decided to take a risk down a more unconventional life path, driven by a positive impact that they want to have on the world.

And my mission is to uncover the significant moments not just in their own story, but in the journey of the generations that came before them, so that you can better understand the impact that this can have on your views, your values, and ultimately the purpose that you may go on to have. Today’s guest is a legend and a trailblazer. Just type his name into Google and you will see why. Navjot is the founder of the washing machine project, which has impacted tens of thousands of lives across the world, is empowered multiple women in some of the most resource scarce areas, and he has distributed washing machines in villages, refugee camps, schools, and orphanages around the world. The washing machine project has now been featured in the BBC, The Guardian, ITV News, The Daily Mail, The Daily Mirror, and I’m sure I’ve missed some out.

The project has won the Tata Varsity Pitch competition in 2021, and he was one of the winners last year of the annual 21st icon awards where he won the sustainability rising star award. He’s also the recipient of the highly esteemed prime minister’s point of light award last year. I believe it was last year. Last year indeed. January.

This really is a story of someone with immense determination, gratitude, and profound compassion, and I honestly cannot wait to uncover everything that’s influenced the man behind the creation. So I’d like to welcome Navjot Sawhney. What a kind introduction. It’s insane when you start to really list out the things that someone has managed to achieve where, you know, know, I know a bit of your background already, and it’s not something that I imagine you ever set out to achieve. You know, you weren’t driven by a, I wanna create something that can win a lot of awards.

No. It was, yes. When you read that back, it’s doesn’t feel real and those things are great, but, you know, I’m really proud of the things that we’re doing, and I’m really, really excited about the mission that that I, we’re on we’re on right now. So I love it. And, you know, something that I think I’ve come to realize is, and I think this applies for every story out there, that but more so, especially when a person is sat off for a particular purpose.

If you trace it back far enough there’s normally a moment that someone can look at where the

initial domino fell, And that domino has had a knock on effect beyond what they ever imagined that knocked all the dominoes that ultimately got them to where they are today. And it’s without those dominoes and you know the butterfly effect explains this anyway, but it couldn’t have happened. And it’s about probably the appreciation and gratitude for when you recognize that, you really start to build a picture of this is this is why I was meant to be here to do this. Mhmm. For you, peeling back the layers or tracking back that journey, what do you think for you was that first domino that fell?

Well, it’s a really it’s a really big question. And I think I was surrounded and I’ve always been surrounded by really powerful women that that know sometimes what’s good for me even though when I don’t and inspire me every day. I think I kind of drew a lucky hand, I think, in that instance, and I think from the very young ages of when my father passed away, and having 2 older sisters and mother who I saw firsthand had to bring us up single handedly and the difficulties around that, really inspired me to, you know, pursue a career in women empowerment. I love that. And, you know, I from what I understand, you know, even from your grandparents’ generation, and this is something that I can relate to, there were big changes or risks that they decided to take, you know, that ultimately, much like ourselves, led to a lot of people like us from these kind of backgrounds, you know, South Asian backgrounds Yeah.

Ending up in the UK. Where and why did that happen in your previous generations? Yeah. So, I’m Punjabi Sikh origin, and a lot of Punjabi’s were displaced during the partition between India and what is now called Pakistan. And I was my family from a place called Raval Pindi.

And this is kind of a place that was slap bang in in the middle of the contested areas. And my, uncle has very clear memories of, you know, conflict happening around him the bullets sometimes being shot from over their building and one of them flying straight past his head. And there was that that point they decided to move just a few weeks before the actual big movement happened. And there were there were 13 siblings and, my grandfather and grandmother moved all at the same time. And they never really recovered from that.

And I remember speaking to my uncle who’s in his nineties now living in Germany, and, he looks at that time, and he remembers that time as a very sad moment. Mhmm. He said to his friends, I’ll see you later. I’ll be we’ll be right back. And he never got to see them since.

And I think that’s a sign of the times that they were going through. They really thought that wasn’t a permanent, displacement. But they moved down to family and deli and I think stories of those first few weeks where they all shared a room with 20 of them in one room and losing all of their livelihood, you know, just having the clothes on their back. And then the older siblings moving out and going to find work in other parts of India. My father was the youngest, You know, he was just under 10 at that time.

And him not really navigating how to get through that really affected his later his later years. And that came out in different ways. And my mother’s side. My mother was a bit younger than my father. So she was born in Mumbai.

But the same story happened with her mum and dad, who were who were displaced, and they moved to Mumbai. So, yeah, I think if they didn’t decide to move at that point, they would have been caught up in all of that, all of that mess that happened during those weeks of displacement where you saw 1,000 and 1,000 of people dying, on those trains and cars and buses. It’s really interesting because it’s not a part of history that even though my grandparents are also Indian Mhmm. Because my parents are East African, I understand the influences that’s had on, you know, ultimately me being born here. I see similarities in the story.

My dad left before the big Ugandan Asian expulsion that happened in 1971. So he left a study.

And now that I understand that story more because I had him as a guest and we spoke about it in the early days Yeah. I see how him having done that where it was at a time when he didn’t he wasn’t preplanning. He his plan was always to go back.

But because he did that, it set up a foundation that ultimately allowed the rest of the family to move. I see in your story how your family you mentioned that they decided to move before Mhmm. The big displacement. Was that quite common amongst the community at the time, or do you see where I like to call it entrepreneurialism before entrepreneurship became this buzzword. You know, did you see a sense of they saw opportunities for a better life on the other side, which they then slightly pulled themselves to rather than a 100% being they were pushed out.

Yeah. I think, it there was a lot Yeah. To be honest, I there was only a couple of months. Okay. Before the full displacement that they did they move and if they stayed, they would have it would have been another story.

And I probably wouldn’t have been here to tell it. So I think inherently Punjabi is quite entrepreneurial. I read a statistic a few years ago, 1 in 4 British Punjabi’s are entrepreneurs. So maybe that’s in the, in the blood or the personality of the culture. But yeah, there’s always someone doing something in the culture.

But, yeah, my grandfather on my mom’s side was a was an entrepreneur and my father was an entrepreneur as well. So That’s fascinating. Do you see how I’m trying to draw what might have been an influence of such a, like, telling statistic around it. And do you think there’s something in having to restart again that may have drilled into them this way of we need to make things for ourselves because, you know, ultimately, external circumstances can shift at any moment. Do you see any of that from certain backgrounds?

I think makers of your own destiny and being in control of your own, your decisions, I think, plays into that. And I’ve found that in my own life, where I never really thought I would become an entrepreneur, it was never in my plans to do that. But, you know, I quite enjoy doing making those decisions and being strategic. And you see that now in the high street where a lot of the trends are, are jumped on by Asians in general. Yeah.

I always think they’re quite clever with their entrepreneurship. Yeah. And I know your mom has been a really, really big influence in your life. And one of the things you’ve you know, been quite vulnerable, but also open about telling is how she came here with, what, £5 in her pocket Yeah. And started from that point.

Yeah. My father was the youngest of 12 siblings. He moved from city to city in India and then eventually found his way into London to study, stayed on. And he studied aerospace engineering, and stayed on and got a job here. And my mom was a really kind of high flying economics, graduate and executive in Mumbai, and then they got arranged to be married.

And it was at that point where my mom decided to leave everything she had and come to London. And I always say that that’s why did you why did she ever do that? Yeah, you know, and she came with £5 in her pocket and she herself has 7 siblings and she had no one in London apart from my father who she barely even met, you know, and I just I just I still ask her to the this day, why did you do that? And what was her? What was her response thing at the time?

You know, it’s this what arranged marriages where she never had the plan to leave India. But I think for her, she says it was in her Kismet, her destiny. And she came to London with £5 in her pocket with no family around her. Apart from this man that she’d recently met and married. And she took basically any job that she had available or was available to her.

Now that time was this, sec secretary job, builders merchant in Southall. And, you know, for some of the had 3 degrees, it was a big step down for her. But she made her way through and she had 3 children and, she got dealt a bad hand because my father died when I was very young. And I think that’s when she kicked in a bit with her entrepreneurial spirit. You know, she made sure that we were fed, look well looked after, but also, you know, rose to the ranks of the government and she recently retired after, you know, 40 years.

There’s sacrifices and, you know, you can also call them compromises that the previous generation would have taken, and you the example of your mom of giving everything up or taking those sacrifices to come here. I look at it in 2 ways. There’s one where I feel like we’re in a generation where we wouldn’t be as willing to do those things. It’s, you know, that’s this is where the culture piece comes in. Right?

Some cultures are built around family first, me second. Right? Whereas now it’s more in Western culture, but you can see the influence in the east as well where it’s, you know, take care of yourself first because then ultimately, you can take care of others. And so there are certain, like, sacrifices we wouldn’t be willing to take. But bringing now that I understand both your both your parents’ sides, and I know your father died quite long young, but what were the influences that their own stories had on the way you were then raised?

Yeah. Well, I think, I’ve been so I’ve been recently trying to map my family’s history. Nice. And, so I have 52 first cousins on both sides of the family and lots of lots of aunties and uncles. And the WhatsApp chats are always popping around birthdays and new years and celebrations like that.

And no one really can tell me what happened pre 1900s, which is so frustrating, because there’s no like records. So I’m speaking to some scholars, and some academics in rubber bindi to see what happened. And there’s very many Sony’s out there. There’s a very famous musician called Knit and Sonya. So if he’s listened, please do reach out.

And I’d love to speak to as many Sony’s to really understand where what happened to my branch of the family tree, pre 1900. So, yeah, and when I speak to my aunties and uncles, they guess, you know, I think they were born then. I don’t know. And then I asked the other uncle, and they have no clue. So it’s a shame.

I don’t know if you feel the same. Have you have you tried mapping your You know, this is almost like we’ve had a talk beforehand, and this was a pre planned plug, but something separately that I’ve been working on, it’s not gonna directly solve what you’re, you know, what you’re doing, which is amazing. I think I didn’t even realize that I had such a strong interest and still I start until I started interviewing my dad and his side of the family and what they experienced leaving East Africa, but I’m creating a tool which allows you to create your family tree, but in a very interactive immersive way where it’s for each family person, you then create a profile and then you upload much like Facebook, your different media. So in your case, right, it’d be what key moments in your life do you want the future generations to see? And in cases where our previous generation say even if we have great grandparents living now, a lot of them will probably not be digitally inclined or savvy enough to wanna store a lot of these Yeah.

Piece of information. So to answer your to kind of laterally answer your question, yes, is super interesting for me. But to the point where I wanna I’m in the middle of creating this so that you can you know, there’s platforms that take your analog documents and store it digitally, but in a way of what could encourage people like us and from all backgrounds to want to create a record Yeah. Of themselves and their family. I’ll my uncle so my uncle from my father’s side, you know, last of 12 siblings.

He’s in his 90s. Now he’s been in Germany for the last 50 years, his memories fading day after day. And, you know, I’ve documented his story time and time again for the last few years. But that’s it. Once he passes away, God forbid, there’s nothing there’s nothing left.

So I’m really interested to to keep hold of that information. And there’s such a, from the stories that I get from a such a pure time and a beautiful time a simpler time. And where there’s so many hopes and aspirations and ambitions that unfortunately were cut too short because of a partition that they were never involved in, apart from actually moving, which is really sad. And we see it being played out over and over again. In in wars around the world.

Yeah, and I feel I feel like that that partition on my dad’s side really, really affected him. You know, both from a grounding point of view, because he never really had a home. You know, a lot of his family were dotted around the world. And, you know, from mental health point of view, I think. And then from my mom’s side, there was a lot of generational trauma.

And I think my mom has always been very focused and very driven, but never had the opportunity to flex that entrepreneur and that entrepreneur in her. And she did that a lot when my part when my father passed, and she had to, you know, make the pound go further for 3 3 hungry children. You know? Yeah. I think you’ve touched on 2 really, really important things, though.

You know, one is the idea that I think just having an appreciation for some of the things that those previous generations went through. And I think this is common of a lot of cultures where, especially when they’ve had to leave their home country, it’s very much they moved to a place where they probably did at a time where there weren’t as many of them, and they had to strive harder. I mean, we still face the issues today of unconscious biases that exist in recruitment. And, you know, we’ll get onto your experience of, you know, applying for jobs that you did. But the previous generation would have had it more where they ultimately had to create a new home for themselves in an environment where they were a minority, but an unknown group of people.

And so they did face difficulties and us appreciating that their way of doing things was to keep their head down and just work hard. Right? And now it’s become a lot more possible. There’s a lot more platforms for us to talk about these things like generational trauma, mental health. Back then, it didn’t really exist.

And, you know, the previous ex episode that I had come out touches exactly on the cultural variations in talking about mental health and how being aware that they would have also struggled with it. It’s not a new age. It’s not suddenly that mental health, you know, turn of the millennium, and suddenly mental health exists. It’s always been there. It just wasn’t understood as something that needs to be really focused on for people who have been through some extreme circumstances.

Hey. I wanted to tell you a little bit more about the that I mentioned earlier in this episode. It genuinely is the most exciting thing I’ve ever worked on and the feedback has been incredible. As we speak, the platform is being built, and once it’s launched, as listeners of this podcast, you’ll be able to use it for free and with no commitment to have to pay for it in the future. The platform will be called Lifetimes, and it fulfills a long desire that I’ve had to create something where you’ll be able to upload the moments in your own life that you want to preserve for your friends, family and the future generations.

So you’ll be able to invite and add other connections to your family tree and each person will have their own profile page, something similar to what you’d see on Facebook or LinkedIn, but the difference is you’ll only upload whatever you view as a life stories, experiences, and messages that you want people in your family tree, past, present, and future, to remember you by. One of the main features will be an inbuilt recorder function where you can record anyone in your

family sharing their own story or life lesson in their very own words and upload this straight to their profile. We’re so lucky to be part of a digital era where we can capture these moments before it’s too late and make sure that they live on forever. So if you or anyone that you know is interested, then please do head over to lifetimesapp.com where you can register to sign up to the wait list with your email address. On that website, there’s also tons more information on what the platform will do and what it will look like.

I’ve also put the link in the description to make it easy for you to get to. Now back to the conversation. Yeah. It’s true. And I was speaking to a couple of friends about this a few months ago and I don’t think there’s a natural definition or a word for depression in Punjabi.

Wow. Not that I know. Punjabi is pretty bad. So anyone knows what the word is, I’d love to write in. What’s the Punjabi word for depression?

Yeah. You know, even in my background is good, and I wouldn’t know. Would have no idea what it is. But Yeah. Yes.

It wasn’t the it’s not it’s not the culture to acknowledge that. Right? No. And then and then to your the second point I wanted to mention is, you know, you’re talking about your mother not really having the time to explore her own entrepreneurial, you know, passions or whatever she believed in value that she wanted to do because of having to look after her, raise a family, you know, make the pound go further. And it’s something that a lot of us have that fortune now Yeah.

That because of the sacrifice of the previous generations, we’ve been given a platform. Yes. We face our own struggles, and, yes, we still you know, it’s not like we’re all going through flourishing moments, but we at least have the ability to dedicate some of our time if we wanted to in order to striving for something that Yeah. You we don’t have to stretch the pound as far as they did, and it’s because of the groundwork that they laid. Yeah, what a luxury man.

Yeah, we’re so lucky that we can explore our passions and ambitions without much, stress or strain. Yeah. And I just don’t think that that was an option for them. It’s probably, you know, I was interviewed recently where I was asked what are the key things that I want people to get out of this show? And it’s the first time I’ve really thought about it beyond the scope of, oh, you know, my mission is to uncover the roots of, you know, change makers and people who’ve taken a risk.

Really, what I want, and it’s something that I learned along the way, which is that because of 1 or 2 or even 3 generations of big decisions that were taken, I. E. Your mom making the sacrifice to move, what your what your granddad went through, your dad’s initial struggles. All of these people have I don’t wanna say 2 options, but there’s 2 extreme options. 1 is to kind of say that life has turned against you and not pack it in, but kind of not look at what the other side, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel is, or the other side is to be like, these are the cards that I’ve been dealt, and this is what I want to do with it.

Because, you know, in your mom’s case, the purpose was family and the community around her. Making those decisions, in my grandparents’ case, it was moving from India to Africa. In my parents case, it was moving from Africa to the UK. That’s 2 generations of a very low percentage of the decision makers or the decisions to take a risk that, you know, the 90 others 90 percent of others wouldn’t have done. And so for me it’s I value that.

Now I’ve understood how low the percentage was for me to even be able to be here, it just makes me appreciate every moment of what I could possibly do with the circumstances I’ve been given, which are hugely favorable. I didn’t grow up in a rich background or spoon fed in any way, but still I grew up in London, which is a place that millions of people would die to get to. And have died. And have died to get to. Exactly.

And it’s given me these opportunities where it’s almost a disservice to everyone a compound the percentages, it does become very, very slim, you know, that we’re sitting here having that conversation. Yeah. So onto schooling. Know, that we’re sitting here having that conversation. Yeah.

So onto schooling years for you. Whether or you did or did not see how much of a an appreciation that you have for the parents that we’re now talking about now, do you see in any way how that molded the way you went about your early years? Are you the type of friends you formed? Did they share a similar mindset to you? Or I, I grew up in Southall.

And if anyone knows or doesn’t know what Southall is, it’s nicknamed like mini Punjab or mini India. It’s where the road names sometimes are in Hindi or Punjabi. The station has signed us as GI new south or which means welcome to south. It’s where a pub called glossy junction used to take rupees as a currency, the radio stations, the news channels, the supermarkets or Punjabi or Hindi, the magazines, and the culture is really strong Punjabi culture. So you don’t have to travel very far to get your creature comforts.

And that’s where I grew up. And you can imagine the schools were very, very heavily dominated and populated by Punjabi kids. So a lot of my friends were Punjabi, and I think I had to get to university to find my first non white. Well, my first white friend. Wow.

Yeah. Which is really interesting. And I also found as when you grow up, it’s subtle being quite, suffocating as well. Right? It’s all the same people, the same similar mindsets.

And, yeah, I remember going through my teen years thinking, oh, man, is this is this where my life is gonna be in? Did you always feel that there was something different that you didn’t quite have your place there? Yeah. Yeah. I think so.

I I think, I was a bit of a finisher. I had some ideas, but I’d love to see them through. And, you know, that might have been different for other people around me, I think. And I was always different. I was always the first one to jump on to different things that I was the first one on social media and I used it to share my ideas and thoughts people thought are stupid at the time and, and weird.

And then I I joined scouts. Scouts was this really amazing thing that kept me a bit disciplined and taught me that there’s more than me that out there. There’s a community that needs support. And Was that a personal interest that made you join scouts? Yeah.

I was, I was 8 years old. I was a really misunderstood kid. I was so naughty. I was terrible. I was like, Yeah, I was just, yeah, just used to run around, causing all sorts of trouble around school.

And I found out later in years that it was because I had this kind of diagnosed behavioural issue ADHD, that my mom didn’t capitalize on Medicaid, you know, I even got identify as something that was she needed machines like she she took me to the hospital. The doctor said I had this behavioral issue and she said, I’ll take care of it. Do you think it came from a place of denial that this kind of exists or even just, you know, just lack of acknowledgement that sometimes, she that medication is the right way to go. But yeah, she said that I didn’t want to dull your spirit or personality. Wow.

And yeah, but that led key moments where I had some really good teachers in in a couple of grades that were like giving me responsibility that I needed. My mom said I needed responsibility. I needed to feel like I own something. So I remember becoming like the chief been officer. Yeah.

The chief water officer and just odd jobs around the classroom that really gave me responsibility to focus and serve people, I think. Do you think your, you know, the way you’ve described your mom of the way that she kind of took her destiny or the world into her own hands to, you know, especially when your father died. Yeah. She still strived to make the most, not just for her kids, but for herself. Yeah.

Do you see that how that may have influenced you in the same way to be like, I, you know, I’m willing and want to take responsibility for what I can do? Yeah. Yeah. I remember the day that my father died and, like, you know, it was a it was a Sunday morning and I just woke up and I thought I was in a dream, you know, everyone was crying around me and my mom was being consoled by her relatives, our relatives, and I just didn’t know what was what was going on. And, you know, I am so impressed at how my mom like just flipped into like a gear that I’d never seen.

And ever since then, she’s just been what a boss man. Yeah, it’s like she needed that opportunity to showcase how she had a handle of everything that she’s ever created around her. So Amazing. And you so you went on to study engineering. Mhmm.

What was the inspiration behind that? So my father was an engineer. And, from my early years, he used to take me to air shows, and I would be fascinated with how things worked and how these big aircrafts would be in the sky. He’d have these models and I’d take them apart and I’d take the toolbox out of the cupboard and and just break everything inside and, yeah, just nothing lasted in my hands. And I used to make my mom really angry and it’s equaled my curiosity.

And so I think studying engineering and problem solving was an a natural transition at university and that’s what I did. And you went on to get a job in Tyson, I believe. Was that something that you always Yeah. Knew? You always had your sights set on such a well esteemed and well established company.

Is that always something that was in your plans? No. I didn’t I didn’t have any plans to work in engineering or do anything like that. I just applied for so many different jobs, not caring about what I wanted to achieve in life and what I wanted to do. I just wanted to get a job.

That was it. Like the best thing that I could do at the time was get a graduate job. It could have been in like missile defence companies. And in fact, I did apply to companies that are completely misaligned to my moral values, you know, moral compass, but I still applied. And I still got through those stages.

And it just I was lucky to have got a response from Dyson and I, from application to starting is probably about the time, you know, I could have taken a few more months to at the time, you know, I could have taken a few more months to think about what I actually wanted to do. And I don’t think they do that a lot with the students coming through the college and the 6 form, process right now. You mentioned something really interesting about, you know, applying for something that didn’t align with your values. I think that’s quite a telling example of where that happens. But, you know, for people listening, there probably are moments where they can look at their own decisions that they’ve taken at one point and whether for one reason or another, they might have taken some sign some kind of decision that didn’t align with a value whether in a job, a relationship, a group of friends that they decided to do even an investment.

Do you think this is or where do you think people can better ask themselves questions of the importance of being able to align your decisions with your values? Or what would you even tell it to your younger self to make sure that this would always be the case? Yeah. I think, you know, in your gut, what is the right thing to do or not? And you kind of persuade yourself the other way.

If your gut is telling you actually, this is the wrong thing to do. And I don’t think I was fully

comfortable with Dyson throughout my whole time there. But I think, you know, there’s so much pressure for 9 k debt, you know, and there’s so much pressure to find something as quickly as possible. There’s no opportunity to think about actually what you’d enjoy, you know, or fail, or like, just experiment with what you want to do. And 9 times out of 10, the thing that you’re going to do when you graduate is not going to think the thing that you’re gonna retire with.

So why place all of that importance on your first job. And that would be my advice to my younger self of duty to really take the time to think about what you actually really want to do. And luckily, I found something that, you know, is more aligned with my purpose and my mission and vision. I think that’s quite a key point that you say there, which is, you know, not to put too much emphasis on that first step, but ultimately, you know, action is better than inaction. Right?

So it’s take that first step. But, you know, what’s really inspiring about what you did is like you said, you applied for all those jobs and appreciate the value of getting into that one, but you didn’t stop there because something in you and I put this down to the internal versus external conflict, and it’s something I’ve asked most of my guests which is that there’s this external pressure and expectation that you have from your boss, your parents, your family, your friends, your community to follow a certain path. Right? And then there’s that internal conflict or conversation that you have with yourself, which is saying that something isn’t quite aligning to me doing exactly what I wanna do. At one point, the point at which that internal conflict overtakes that external conflict or expectation, that’s where you know the change has to be made For you, can you pinpoint where or when that happened?

It was I was at Dyson for about two and a half years, and I was kind of in this meeting with probably about 15 people that were all talking about thinning out the plastic of 1, one of the parts of this £500 product. And the thinning out of the part would have saved, you know, a few extra penny for a manufacturer that had already been making 1,000,000,000. And for me, that was the kind of light bulb moment of several light bulb moments throughout my career where I was like, wow, this is what I’m gonna do for the rest of my life, you know? And, I remember going home that evening and researching for different things to do, and I found this this kind of international placement scheme, an organization called Engineers Without Borders. They were partnered up with this this company in South India to make cookstoves, and I just shoot my shot and applied.

And about 6 months later, I found myself in in the middle of a village in in Tamil Nadu making cookstoves for people who use wood to cook their food. I trivialize the transition but it was it’s a mad transition to communicate that to my family quit my, my well paid engineering job that I’d worked 22 years to get to and then and then found myself in a in a village wearing flip flops and shorts in a workshop making, making these cook so that reduced the smoke emissions for people who use wood to cook their food. It’s amazing story. And, you know, you’ve spoken about this in a number of different articles and interviews, and I strongly recommend someone that is listening to you for the first time and doesn’t know this to check out some previous episodes because, you know, even from the journey of you first setting off to go there and the sort of doubts that you had and the questions that, you know, I’ve been through similar questions when I left my job to move to China and there were some there were strict very clear moments where I thought, what have I done?

Right? Why did I why did I think I was capable of taking this risk and trying new pastures when I and I probably would have been happier in my comfortable little space. And then you realize. Yeah. You know, there’s a book called same as ever by Morgan Housel.

And he talks about how the most successful people, the people that make it are the ones who are optimistic in the long run, but pessimistic in the short. And that applies to so many different situations even in investing. The long run pessimists, But the long run optimists, but the short term pessimist, I e accepting that things will be okay, but there’s gonna be bumps along the road

are the ones that persist for the longest. And I think it applies really well in in everyone trying to understand it. There’s even a story of someone who is jailed for a very long time.

It’s, I can’t remember his name, but it was once he was finally released after decades and many of the people along the way in jail died, and he you know, you’d expect him to be like, I was always optimistic that I was gonna come out. And the first thing he said was, I knew that I would come out one day, but I knew I wouldn’t be out next Christmas. And it’s just that concept that it’s never gonna just be a smooth road, you know, to get the other side. Yeah. But one day, there will be light, and you just have to maintain that belief that you can get there.

You know, that’s something that really is telling in your story, but, you know, you talk about that feeling of, you know, people around you and your parents or your mom’s thinking, what have you done in terms of leaving this well paid job? How did you deal with that reaction? Yeah. I think Jay Shetty says it best when he says, you know, when everyone around is you, everyone around you is telling you that it’s the wrong idea. And you think it’s the right there.

Just lean into that. Just lean to lean into a bit more. And you’ll always find that you are right. So I let I let into it and everyone thought I was making the biggest mistake of my life. And, you know, it’s probably the best decision I’ve ever made.

Yeah. And the so you were out there and, you know, again, this is really well documented of Divya and, the impact that she had. If you if you were to quickly, again, summarize what were those key turning points in that, you know, your time abroad Yeah. That ultimately formed the basis of how the washing machine project came about. What was that?

I’ll tell you what I’ve just done. So I’ve spent the last 2 weeks in India. I came back yesterday. So I’m talking about little jet lagged. And I gave Divya the lady that inspired the washing machine project to her machine for the first time after 6 years.

Oh, congrats. I went back to the village that I stayed in I spent time there and we had a little carnival and a festival and we celebrate with food and art and music. And it was it was just magical, but that was a 6 year journey to get to that point and, it all started with the promise. And the promise was to a lady called Divya who was my next door neighbor when I was making cookstoves at the time. And Divya’s life was an everyday struggle whether it was purging for Wood to cook her food or hand washing her family’s clothes.

And she wanted to work but didn’t have the time because she’d spent all that time on unpaid labor. And it was at that point that I I promised her an alternative to hand washing clothes. It was this backbreaking task that she’d spent hours and hours a week doing. And that’s why I did I promised her a manual washing machine. And then fast forward 6 years, we’ve distributed in 15 countries, we’ve impacted 1000 of lives, we’ve distributed many of our washing machines, which we call deviate washing machines.

They’re manually powered, no electricity, little water, 6 minutes and 5 KGs wash. So It’s amazing what you’re you know, it’s not just a philanthropic effort, but even in the one of sustainability, and that’s why you won one of the awards you did as the rising star. On coming back from India, you talk about how it was the promise that you made, that you stuck to, that you knew you had to do it. In the age we live, you know, where we’re exposed to so many different forms of media and fast consumption and fast outcome. Right?

So it’s as easy to swipe left on, Bumble or Tinder to find your next match as it is to donate to this and that cause. Given that you came back, what was it that made you stick so strong to this promise and not kind of just fall back into the bubble that I imagine a lot of people may do after coming back from volunteering abroad or traveling and being inspired to do something and then

falling back into routine. What made it different? Yeah, it’s a it’s a really good point. And it’s really emotional for me because I made good on that promise this last week, just yesterday, I just came back and they’ve said something really poignant to me.

She said, most people promise things, but no one really sticks to them. And you did. And she said, keep helping people like me around the world. Don’t stop. And I thought I was I just broke down into tears when she said that.

And for me, that was such a beautiful moment and we captured it on camera. And it was just, man, yeah, I just could not control myself and the emotion. And I don’t want to like, glamourise entrepreneurship and say everything was fine. I think, you know, as I said, at the start, we’ve always been surrounded by amazing people. And I’ve been really lucky with that.

So I had to pay the bills. So I joined, the Jaguar Land Rover at the time, and my boss who was amazing always used to turn a blind eye when I used to work on the side hustle called the washing machine project. I used to work early mornings, late evenings, during lunch, sometimes over the day as well. I need to always be so proud of what I was doing and always turn a blind eye when I was a bit too busy. And that really helped.

And I work so hard, sometimes 80 90 hours a week on both jobs. And then it got on, like, just unbearable when I started when I started employing people. So I had, like, 7 people employed on the washing machine project, and I was still Mhmm. Working for Jagadish Land Rover full time. And, you know, the likes of the BBC wanted to do a radio interview, and I had a team call for a lunch at JLR.

So that’s when I realized that actually, you know, it’s probably the right time to quit. And I remember, Adrian Mardell, the CEO at the time who’s CEO now, and I said, Adrian, I’m quitting JLR. And he said he said, no person can have 2 missions. You have one mission and that’s to create a washing machine. So go and do that.

I love that. He’s been amazing since. So Thinking about that, you know, one of my favorite quotes is, what makes life meaning is something with a purpose, goal, or a battle of struggle. Fear, pain, and struggle are motivators that positive feelings cannot match. Though a carefree and stress free life sounds wonderful only until you recognize the motivation and progress that it prevents.

And the reason that I wanted to mention that is in our first ever conversation, the one thing that you said that’s always stuck with me is that you said that I fell in love with the problem and not the solution. Mhmm. It’s true. And the problem will always be there. Right?

People will always hand wash clothes, but the solution always change. One thing I also wanted to ask you about. So we live in what I’d regard as like an age of philanthropy. There’s this huge wealth gap where since 2000, the 1% of the richest have earned twice as much as the rest of the 99%. And, you know, I’m gonna post the article in the description, but it’s saying it describes how since World War 2, this is the point at which the wealth gap is the largest.

Considering we live in this age where even the way the system is set up, I mean, you have Elon Musk who between 2014 and 2018 paid about 3% in tax versus wealth. Then you have someone in Africa who’s earning maybe $80 a week and they’re on 40% tax. Right? The divide is just extreme. How do you see as the way that we can move to a place where the things like what you are doing can really be scaled to a degree that can make the difference without exacerbating this thing of increasing wealth gap and poverty that’s happening.

I mean, people are realizing that now. Right? So there’s a lot of pushed on climate change initiatives, and there’s mad innovation going on. Kate Rowthorn is an economist who worked for

the World Bank and the UN. She explains it really well, which is imagine the world as a doughnut.

It’s called doughnut economics. Everyone wants to live in the soft gooey centre. And you don’t want to exceed the planetary boundaries, which we’re doing right now. And the people that are inside the doughnut in the inner ring, are just not meeting the expectations of what sustainable living is. You know, they’re living on a dollar a day, no fresh, no food, no water, and you wanna lift those people into the soft gooey center.

So you wanna stay into that soft gooey center. So, you know, a 1,000,000,000 people today will go hungry, and they need to be lifted out of poverty. So how do you do that with staying inside the planetary boundaries? It’s not gonna work with having same the same refrigerators that we have. So that’s where innovation comes in.

And, you know, we all need to put our heads together to lift those people out of poverty and for us to live within our planetary boundaries. I think, you know, feeling charitable is not about feeling pity for the people that are giving to, but aiming to give them the same fullness of experience of life that you are driving to have yourself. I couldn’t have explained that myself. I might take that for my next talk. I’ll put it in the, description so you can copy paste it so you can see.

But I can’t take full credit for it. It’s, you know, something that I’ve read and there are some things that I read that just stick with me and, you know, you really do encapsulate exactly what that stands for with what you’ve done. That’s better. One question that I wanna ask that I ask all my guests is if you had one message that you could leave for the future generation that, you know, when they are born, they open up that piece of paper and they read it and that message has come from you. What would that be?

Oh, yeah. Not to end on a cliffhanger, but you probably have already said it, which is, you know, fall in love with the problem because the solution will always change. I have to remind my team all the time that, you know, we’re not just making a manual washing machine where we’re trying to reduce this burden of hand washing clothes for women and girls around the world, and there’ll be more problems like that that we wanna solve. And, you know, if you can find your icky guy, which is your passion, something good for the world that you can earn money for, then Isn’t that what we all should be striving towards?